WWDC Afterthoughts with Stefan and Amos

Jeroen Leenarts: Welcome, everybody to our live stream experiment. This is the first time that the three of us are actually doing a live stream in any capacity. So probably things are going to be a bit. Well, awkward, maybe just getting things started and coming to grips with YouTube studio live streaming interface is one of the things that we're dealing with. But it seems to be working quite nicely. And we're online with the three of us. And yeah, it's just a matter of making sure that we don't have any issues. While we are streaming, we have some notes prepared to make sure that we have a good session for you. I'm changing my lighting a little bit, because I'm like, oversaturated. That's better. And, yeah, let's just get started. And if you have any thoughts on on our live stream, any any comments, do use the chat in YouTube, we are monitoring that. We try to pick up any questions that you might have, and try and answer those for you. So first of all, I want to thank stream. That's the employer of all three of us for allowing us to be so active in the engaging with the iOS community during the WWDC week. And as you might have known stream is a chat product that allows you to easily incorporate a chat feature in your website or your app. In days instead of months. Definitely check it out, get stream.io. So thanks for that stream. And yeah, if you have any questions on that product that we have stream employees, as different team tried to bring to the market just hit us up on Twitter or anywhere that you come across us. So not to carry on too much about the sponsorship aspects. Let's just dive in headfirst on all the content. First of all, we have three people here, Stefan, he's in my team at stream. And he's Developer Relations engineer slash advocate. And we have Amos. He's also in my team. He's also a developer relations, engineer, advocate with a focus on video content. And there's one special thing about Amos, and that's that he's actually traveled to the Apple campus. So we're probably gonna dig into that a little bit as well. And yeah, that's mostly about us. I'm the team leader of these two here. So I get the privilege to work with him every day. And I don't want to carry on too much about that. So to get things started, what was the biggest announcement according to you, too, I have an idea on something as well. But I'm really curious to hear what you Stefan think, is the biggest announcement of WWDC this year. Stefan Blos: So for me, it was definitely the way that they presented swift UI, because that's like, the framework I enjoy working with the most. And I really liked the way they communicated on everything around that. And the addition stalemated because, like, according to them, it was the real clear that swift UI and Swift is I think the quote was, is the best way to build apps on Apple's platforms. So I think it clearly shows that they're really embracing it, and teams and developers are really inclined to start using Swift UI if they haven't already, to basically start the transition there. And I was really happy about that, to see that. Even if there was like the lack of huge blockbuster announcements, I still think that's a great outcome of this year's edition of the conference. So I'm really happy to have heard that and see the trajectory forward for apple on this on this topic. And what, sorry, Jeroen Leenarts: is it specific features of the Swift UI framework that you really like and what you have added this year? Or is it like more in general language type things that I've added? Stefan Blos: So I think it's it's mostly like in like small increments of the of the functionality and like, overall, better, better development experience. And I like the approach they're doing by just gradually adding new things, while basically not deprecating too much. I think the only thing that was deprecated was the way they that they could have done navigation components work. So I really liked the way they they don't do splashy changes every year, but just gradually improve that the experience. I think that that really helps to get to 50 or to a level where it's, and I don't want to get a shitstorm off that but like production ready in just a very, very small timeframe. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, yeah. Because even though they did a lot of updates to Swift UI Also, I watched the What's New in UI Kit session. And there's like a ton of new stuff in UI kit as well. So it really seems that Apple is not neglecting or forgetting UI kit. But they are sending a clear message this year that if you build a new app, then swift UI is definitely your first option to start working with. So yeah, and you already wanted to hand it off to Amos. So it was what is your take on the biggest announcements this year? Amos Gyamfi: From my side, I will say it is swift cuts. So for the previous year, I have been experimenting with a way to do some data visualizations, and then preview them in Swift UI. But it seems like there wasn't any way. So I experimented with, they have a Python library called bouquet, you can use it to just create those charts, which were presented in Swift UI. And they also have another library that they call Seabourn. So I experimented with those. But in the end, I didn't know how to use those visualizations. So introducing this in Swift UI is really great. And then, after watching the presentation, I thought like maybe it is just basic visualizations, but I got time to just go through the documentation itself. And you can do you can add a lot of interactivity and do complex data visualizations with it. So I think it's really great. Yeah, like, if you work on some apps, like maybe, without apps, you can just use it to just preview the progress of users without any other things. So you Jeroen Leenarts: have some plans, you have some plans already with, with Swift charts, making some content with that, or what do you Amos Gyamfi: I started yesterday, making some content on it. And then from next week, I also plan to write article, like getting started with Swift that, yeah. And then we can go to Stefan Blos: your favorite chart so far. Amos Gyamfi: Yeah, so now it's like, what I didn't like from the documentation is like they have a lot of these charts. And then they don't really explain where to use, or how to, or when it is to use a particular chart. If you compare that to the data visualizations from Google, they really indicate like, pie chart is good in this context. But in this context, too, you cannot use something like a bar chart or or a line chart. So in the upload documentation, that part is not really clear. But I think everything is good. Like, they have really great examples, which you can you can just use in your app to Yeah, Jeroen Leenarts: yeah, yeah. And a lot of documentation for swift charts is also written INDOXXI. I think, from my understanding, they did a few. They did a few important and useful upgrades to Doxy as well. Talking about Doxy actually, I just wanted to plug something that they for were released the Friday before WWDC, because most people didn't know the Swift package. Index, right? I wanted to say manage, but it's the fifth package index. And on Friday, what they actually launched was a doc C generating of packages in the Swift package index. So if you have your package in Swift, I just have to add a little bit. You have to do a little bit of metadata on your repository, and then all of a sudden, all your doc seed documentation is generated and and hosted on the Swift package index. Really nice. People should definitely check it out if they have some time. And it takes a lot of hassle out of generating the Doxy stuff. So yeah, Swift charts is the thing for you. It's because it's a very visual thing is that the reason that it piques your interest? Or is it mostly that it was something that you were sort of missing in, in the in the Swift UI framework? So you always had to use a third party dependency or roll your own thing to do something that resembles charts? Amos Gyamfi: I have been looking for a ways to do that long ago. So but I didn't think like it will be implemented in Swift UI this way. So I became so happy when I saw it for the first time. Jeroen Leenarts: Cool. Yeah. So yeah. And then to complete the round. I also have some some things that I think were really big announcements, at least according to my tastes, and, and it's on two things, really, because initially, I wanted to say yeah, passkey that's the that's the big new thing. But then, when I looked into it a little bit more this week, I remembered and also saw the session that I did on passkey. Last year and WWDC 2021 So far skis in itself, the login mechanism is nothing new. But what they did upgrade was the integration that you should be able to do with these Bosque. So that's the ability to log in with your device on a separate device without having these two device associated through your Apple ID. And I really liked that. And I'm seeing a lot of activity now, as well with for instance, favor swift that they're looking into having effing web off end work in in their back end frameworks. Because right now, you still have to look at go Lang examples or some other language. And I'm really looking forward to how this will develop and webinar pass keys will actually be a thing that is like standard or normal when, when working with websites and apps when logging in. And then the thing Stefan Blos: go ahead, how's how's the third party integration there? Is it just limited to Apples services? Jeroen Leenarts: Now, that's a bit an interesting challenge there because I like a couple of weeks before WWDC, Apple, Microsoft and Google, they announced a sort of partnership on with the phyto. Alliance and Fido is the organization that has actually defined the underlying standard that enables this passwordless login. So that's the web of N standard. And the big question that you now see online is okay, I can create my pass keys on my device, I can share them between my device through through my iCloud Keychain. Also these past gatekeepers, you can share them with other Apple users by using handoff. So for instance, if the two of us would meet, I could send you a handoff with a passkey. So that you can also log in with those credentials. So they are shareable. But what about cross platform? Or I should say, cross ecosystem? So that's a big question, how do you share your credentials? When you're, for instance, you're an Android user, and you want to become an iPhone user. Is there a way that you can migrate all your credentials from the Android platform to the iOS or Apple ecosystem? And vice versa? And then there's also the Windows platform? So is there some sort of interchange being developed or not? And there's no clear indication yet on whether or not that will be available? So yeah, that's still a big question mark, I hope it will become available, because I think credentials, it's, it's like base level functionality that should just be available to anyone online on the internet. People shouldn't be secure. And yeah, sort of like phishing proof. So hopefully, some good news will be available there in the coming weeks or maybe months, we'll just have to see. So but it is developed standard web auth. And that's been around for a couple of years already. So it's been proven that the cryptography underlying this standard is sound. So it's all elliptic curve for based algorithms. And it should, it should be good. But then the question is, what will be the adoption of these standards? So we'll see. But the one thing that I really liked about the WWDC announcement, so that's mostly in the keynote, that was the actual announcement of the apple silicone m two. And that's basically I think, a little bit because I'm using an M one MacBook Pro is my daily driver that I've got actually two MacBook Pro and one laptops available to me, one private and one from work. And it's been a really great little machine. It's like it has performance, it's portable. And of course, I'm not building these huge Xcode projects like a debit my previous job, so it's more than powerful for me right now. And just knowing that, that the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro are the first receivers of this new this new hardware that's really great to see. And it also gives a clear indication on what their rollout plan will be for the CPU across their lineup because it's probably going to be very similar to what they did with the M one CPU. And what I'm really curious about with the m two announcement is you have the MacBook Air which has a total new case design the upgraded case design, it has like MagSafe and so if you're charging you still have all your USB C ports available, but the macbook pro m two is pretty much a MacBook Pro and one with with a different CPU in it so all the cameras and all the other specs the keyboard the the touch bar is all the same. So I was kind of surprised by that. But on the other hand, did it close the gap a little bit between the two devices for how much you have to pay the sort of MacBook Pro is not that much more expensive compared to the MacBook Air. Yeah. And what's happening Stefan Blos: some beeping assaulted the back just a second. Amos Gyamfi: Yeah, I can't see it. Stefan Blos: Yeah, yeah. I Just want to quickly add on on that, because I really like the entire like setup of the new man, I Jeroen Leenarts: think my wife did like a DisArt device discovery on my on my laptop for some reason. But it's off again, it was my laptop and my laptop back actually going off. So to continue on the M one m two comparison, I was kind of surprised that it didn't do like a case upgrade or design upgrade of the MacBook Pro. And I'm really curious to see what the performance difference will be between the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro with the m two chip. Because between the M one models of those two, the Erin Pro, there was no performance difference, except when you were doing sustained workloads that you have like a lot of CPU intensive task running for a long duration, and then you would run into the thermal limits of the MacBook Air case design. So I'm really curious to see how this pans out for the the m two CPU in this new case design. Compared to the old case design for the MacBook Pro, which has active cooling and the MacBook Air still does not have active cooling. So that's a lot of Stefan Blos: things set up. But yeah, because like, I think the third it's the 1313 inch MacBook Pro, right? Yeah. And there's still the 14 inch 16 inch, which are like the new design devices. So I think it's interesting that they kept the old form factor of the 13 inch MacBook Pro, because as you mentioned, like the the capabilities in the MacBook Air are already so powerful, I think I don't really see where the MacBook Pro in the non, like the non 14 or 16 inch MacBook Pro really comes in. Because I would have understood it very well, if they said the m two is for the MacBook Air. And then the m two Pro and the M true m two Max, not the Ultra, I think I will come to the Pro lineup because there would be like a very clear differentiator between the platforms, or between the device lines. And that's not happening. So I'm a little bit wondering why they're keeping the 13 inch MacBook Pro around. Jeroen Leenarts: I think it's simple. I think the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro 13 inch, are there two computer pieces of hardware with apple that are the they sell the most of those two. So by putting the m two in the air and a pro 13 inch, they they get enough sales going really on the m two chip so that they have the benefit of scale there. And then once the end and that that allows them to produce these things cheaper optimize the, the processes of this new CPU. And once they got that nailed down, then they can fan out into the other case designs that are that are just sold quite a lot less compared to the 13 inch and the air. I think that's the that's the main driver there. Unknown: And good point. Jeroen Leenarts: And also last year, the MacBook Pro 13 inch and the MacBook Air, the difference between the two devices was was tiny. There was some hardware features that were different, but in essence it was the same machine with or without active cooling. And yeah, it's a bit of, I think the MacBook Pro 13 inch is a little bit of a between machine between the MacBook Air and the the 14 inch MacBook Pro. But yeah, in any case, I really like the upgrades that it does. And I'm really curious to see some actual real world performance numbers on these M tools, because they were a bit vague in the graphs, because they were really comparing the performance per watt a lot in these graphs. But they were not really comparing the actual peak performance between devices. So of course, the Apple wants to give graphs that is most beneficial to their to their pitch of the product. But yeah, I do think that if you have if you have a beefy Intel CPU based laptop that the peak performance of that thing is probably a lot higher than what this MacBook Pro 13 inch can do. But at what costs you probably running a laptop, if you want to run it on peak performance with a battery, then probably like an hour, maybe two batteries that. So what's the benefit of having a mobile machine, right? Yeah. So not to keep on going on the hardware because WWDC is, of course, a software and a developer event. Let's continue on. And there was one really big, cool thing that happened during this week. And that was actually a Moses trip to Cupertino, which almost ran into a little bit of an issue when traveling there. But we were fortunately with some crazy running around but he was able to sort that and he was able to get to Cupertino in time and be part of all the activities there. So can you tell us a little bit about what your experience was like? Because just starting at like, the first day, getting to the Apple campus and just being welcomed on site, so can you tell a little bit about that? Amos Gyamfi: Yeah, so I will say in the beginning, it was quite stressful, like, I have EU nationality. So I don't need a star to enter into the US. I don't need a visa. So I had to apply for esta. So after applying for esta, I also changed my passport. So taking like, I can use my new passport to go in the same way. So I went to the airport. And then the KLM agents told me like, I have the extra approval in the old passport, so I cannot fly anymore. So then I tried to buy another ticket immediately. So I bought it, it was around. I checked, it was around 450 euros. So by the time I went to the checkout page, it was around 1100. So I just bought it like that, and then try to fly on the next day. Then I went to the airport again, it was like four hours before they take off. Then I tried to check in. And then they told me like the COVID test has expired, because it doesn't need to be more than 24 hours. So luckily, they do another COVID test at the airport. So I had to just go around and then do that again. But in the end my money. Yeah. But in the end, everything was fine. And then by the time I got to San Francisco to the COVID test I did here has also expired, then I had to do another COVID test within 15 hours for to be able to enter into the Apple event. Yeah. So Jeroen Leenarts: yeah, because Apple requires attendees to have a negative test available, right? Or have to have like, have an actual proof that it tested negatively, within 24 hours before defense. Amos Gyamfi: You have to do the test with a recognized agency. And then after that, they give you a link whereby you upload the result. Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: Cool. So yeah, then you got to Cupertino, you checked into your hotel, or did you go straight to the campus? Amos Gyamfi: Now, it was already late. So I booked for one toe in the upward developers center. So I wasn't able to get in because it was starting from 2: 30pm to 6pm. So by the time I got to the hotel, it was already four o'clock. So on that day, I didn't do anything until the next day. So there was another tour in the morning. So I was able to participate in that. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. So and then yeah, you get to the campus on the first day that you're able to. And then what what was the experience? Like? was like a little bit like going to an Apple store. But 10 like insanely bigger, or what was it like? Amos Gyamfi: You mean the Apple store or Jeroen Leenarts: just going to the to the Apple campus and being welcomed on site for the tour and taking the tour? Really? Amos Gyamfi: Yeah. Before you get in, you have to do like five security checks. So they take you in the beginning. Yeah, they take you like what you have in your bag, whether you are just traveling alone, it check your pocket, they do screening like they do at the airport, as well. Then after that, you meet some other groups, they will also check you and ask you some few questions. Then they have last check where they give you the badge. So if you have the badge, then you are allowed to enter to the Developer Center. Yeah. So a very intense security screening going on there to make sure that there's no there would be no mishaps during during the offense. Yeah, so they they even have these dogs they just moving around the park everywhere to check that everything is in place. Yeah. So after getting to the Developer Center to they take us through a tour like 20 people in a group. You go through the Swift UI labs and different meeting rooms for developers where they work, what they do the recording rooms and where they record your videos for presentations and other things. Which were really really cool. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, and you've been, you've been at the Spaceship, right? The big ring, but you could not get to the center of the space ring, right? You could only because what I understood the keynote viewing and all the other things that were like at the campus building itself, they were on the outside of ring. So you were at Cafe Mac. And then outwards was where the screen was right Amos Gyamfi: there put the, the ring was on the other side, and they put a barrier in front of the ring. So you can just take photos and everything there. But they don't allow people to go beyond the rink. And then on the other side, they open to large screens in Cafe mark. And then after Cafe mark, they also have a park where they have the main screen. So they totally they have like three screens. Jeroen Leenarts: So when you were sitting in the sun during the event, or Amos Gyamfi: during the keynote, I sat in the sun. And then they provided some screen, which you can just apply on the screen we because they thought like it was too warm. And then after that people were just moving away, like I was waiting with Jody and some group. And then we all left and then move to cafe mark. I also wanted different locations where I can take photos. So I moved to coffee mug during the show too. Jeroen Leenarts: So Cafe Mac, that's the that's the cafeteria in the Apple campus ring with these huge sliding doors, right? Yeah, Amos Gyamfi: yeah. I had I had a story. Like, they have glasses everywhere. So I even had like they also had a lawsuit about that, because people were just banging the head with the glasses all the time. So Jeroen Leenarts: people, people which is walking into Yeah, Amos Gyamfi: yeah. It's quite huge. You really, really do. You have to go far all around the building everywhere is class. And so I think the developers how to just construct the place again, but it looks really nice. It's really great. Yeah, Jeroen Leenarts: yeah. And then the screen that you were like, viewing the keynote on it. My understanding was that it's the exact same video that people saw online. Yes. Was this something that was special? That was added before like the video? Or was it something happening before the video got started or not? Amos Gyamfi: That is what I thought it will happen. Maybe I thought like, maybe they will come and speak in person, like different developer group or anything. But it didn't happen in that way. It started at the same time. So the screen that you saw, it was just exact time when everything was started. Jeroen Leenarts: And what could you did? Did you have a good few? Was the screen bright enough? Like customers in the middle of the sun? Right? Amos Gyamfi: Yeah, it's quite bright is a is quite huge and bright. And and you can you can just see it well, like even from the photos I sent. You can see they look really, really clear. Yeah. I don't know how they were able to get the picture quality to look so good. Just like that. And then the Stefan Blos: vivid app from Charlie? Amos Gyamfi: Yes, yes. Jeroen Leenarts: That would be cool. Yeah. Amos Gyamfi: Yeah. And then if you go to cafe mark two, the two screens are also huge. Like it takes. It can be, I think the size is even larger than a wall. So we're also having good, good quality as well. Yeah. But most of the people didn't want to sit in the sun anymore. So they were just Yeah, it was it was quite warm. Right. Yeah, it's quite warm. And then Cafe mark is also quite large. So did the West throw some empty seats? Over there? Stefan Blos: Yeah, have a quick I have a question. For the, for your during the keynote or during the State of the Union as well. When like, did people scream or like, applaud during that? Because like, I mean, I watched it at home, sitting quietly and like being happy about things. But how was the atmosphere of, of the people sitting there? Because like it was all developers, right? Amos Gyamfi: Yeah, it were all developers, so they didn't see so much clap. But at some point, when they introduce a new technology, then you can just see people shouting, or somebody will just stood up from the chair and then say something. Yeah. And then people were just clapping on their side as well. Yeah. Stefan Blos: Yeah. That's cool. Jeroen Leenarts: That's really cool. So just showing some pictures here. So that people can have a view on what you were doing during the event. Amos Gyamfi: So I can say something about this one. So I was sitting here on the main screen. So on the left, close to the long speaker over over the back, so I will just close to the back as well. There I don't get a long view and take the photos. Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: All right. So it seems, it seems like they had like, as you would expect with apple that to have like everything in order, and you had a good view on the screen, son was a bit bright and a bit warm. But everything else was really cool. How was the audio? What? Could you hear everything? All right there. Amos Gyamfi: Yeah. So they have the speakers situated in all locations. So you can see in the in the front, they have like, three of them, then on the side, from the front to the back. Just go a long way. And then in Cafe mark to the position that in different locations, so you can just hear it, just like sitting in your home and listen to it. Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: So but that's, that's then the keynote and the State of Union. That was also outside, right? Amos Gyamfi: Yeah. It was in the same location. So during that one is the time I moved with you already to a cafe Mark. Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. Yeah. to just have a bit of cooler hats during the announcements. Yeah. If you can still keep a cool hat like sem campus during WWDC. So, but the status union and the keynote, that was just a small bit of all the activities that Apple arranged, because you already talked about a tour that you got, you have your keynote, if you the State of the Union, what are the things that you do while you were there? Amos Gyamfi: So after the keynote, and and then the so today also organize, meet and greet. So during that time, I tried to meet the Swift UI and UI framework team. There were like 12 people in the team. And then luckily, much Ricketson was also there. So I asked someone who were smarter than they showed me like, he's the tallest in the group. So he was so happy to meet me. And then he introduced me to the group, and then they were so happy, like, he told them what we do. And then luckily, he also watched some video from Stefan, I was even surprised. He saw like, he just wanted to know what I do at stream. And then he told them what I do at stream. And then they will also ask me, how we are using Swift UI in daily basis. And then if I can speak with them about that, so I told them, I told them everything. And they were so happy. And then he said, It will be good if he introduced me to the Apple Developer Relations team. So he called one lady. They call him they call her Betsy. If Yeah, yeah. So she came. She's working with as a technical director, also. And then she introduced me into the Developer Relations team. Jeroen Leenarts: Cool. Yeah. So any, any connections you were able to make? That might be something that will help you out in the future? Or what do you think Amos Gyamfi: two of them the they just requested my Twitter account and then followed me as well. Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: Cool. Yeah, it's, it's I think the in person aspect, not just the Apple engineers and the apple people but also all the other people that you were able to meet was was really nice because you also share some pictures with people that you that you met on site during the audit events that you participated in, Amos Gyamfi: keep it was quite surprising, like to see people like they have Ustream before and most of them too, they have UStream and stop using stream so I was a bit surprised like, I was working, and then a guy came, oh, I have Ustream they call me Austin I have this app and that and that but now I don't use stream anymore because the customer has changed and then I met another guy they also said they still use stream even now and I missed I met like six people in that sense Jeroen Leenarts: that's cool. Especially when when you can when people can tell you why they stopped using street that's like really valuable to us. Because that's what I know. Amos Gyamfi: And I like to know for people who don't know about stream when they see it is written here they think like it is maybe live streaming thing so I met all one one guy they were just introducing what they do. And then he was talking about a live streaming up his he spoke like five minutes after that. He asked me Oh, I take your app is also the same thing as what I do. Can you can you explain how different it is? That doesn't know how we do we don't do that. This is what we do. Yeah, Jeroen Leenarts: sounds good. Oh, just because you did some other things beyond the keynotes, the State of Union, the labs and all that stuff. But to close the to close the Apple campus, face it off. Were there any things that surprised you while you were on site there? Or was that something that you didn't expect or anything? Amos Gyamfi: For the first and I will say, like how open the Apple employees were the engineers, they were just open, if you ask them anything, they will just try to help you out. And then after the event, too, they have this iOS happy hour event. I met most of the Apple employees there. So I was surprised, like, do oppo allows you to just go for this external event? And then a guy who works with the iCloud team? He said, Yes, it's a good question. Because in the beginning, he didn't feel comfortable to go for events before people were just interested in asking him what he is working on and the projects he is doing. So he tried to explain to them, he cannot give more details. So now people just understand. So they are just respectful of that. So when he goes to external events, they don't ask him so much. So they were just open, inter interacting with the people or the auditorium, which was really, really great. Yeah. And then another thing was, before you get to the airport Developer Center, they do the security check and make sure you don't have any camera with you. So Apple was just trying to say, Oh, you can take any photos, how many photos? We don't care, but you have to use iPhone. So no, no, seriously. They will not tell you that way. But they took all the cameras away. Only the press were able to use the camera and to antecessor if Jeroen Leenarts: you, if you would, if you would show up with a back with a camera in it, then they will set Nope. You got to put it in a locker over there and pick it up afterwards. Or Amos Gyamfi: yeah, they took they take it away, then they give you a talk. They give you a copy of the they also keep one. Yeah. Because I was the camera I use for making the videos, which has really, really good quality. So I thought like maybe I can use it to take all the photos. No. Yeah, they will just come like five people. They will just check you whether you have camera or not before they can allow you to just enter that. Yeah. Apart from just take as many photos as you want. Because they know all the developers will come with iPhone. Jeroen Leenarts: I wonder what would have happened if you would show up there with like, we'd like a samsung android phone and then start snapping pictures there. I wonder what they would have done that? Stefan Blos: Yeah, those devices don't work there. They have some form of blocking. Yeah, they have Jeroen Leenarts: some sort of forcefield there that just scrambles those devices. Amos Gyamfi: But I think that they also think developers don't Apple developers don't use Android. So that may also be a wanton. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, yeah. That's that's a low likelihood of having a developer there whose carry only Android devices, I guess. Yeah. So um, so but you also participated in some sort of some community activities around the the event, right, so I think you went to the iOS dev happy hour in personalization. Amos Gyamfi: Yeah. I went there. And then I met people I bought Hudson. And then you already saw Paul also came to me, I wasn't having this stream. T shirt. I was surprised when he recognized me. And so Oh, almost from stream write that as a yes. Then he just started to talk with me. And then we took some photos and marathons. Yeah. So I will just share with you as well. Yeah. And then I met some other guy, too. They call him Kyle. He said, he's a friend of Stefan. So he has an app. And he is extremely user as well, then you contacted me, and he was so happy and happy about the videos we do. And then he was just telling some other developers about what we do there. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, yeah. So just just by being there, you're already spreading the words on our stream by not even saying anything. Amos Gyamfi: That's amazing. It's quite nice in that sense. Jeroen Leenarts: And And were there any other events besides the iOS dev happy hour and the apple events themselves that you went to or did not have any more time available to participate in things, Amos Gyamfi: I think, around Cupertino, I think that was the main event, which was going around there because they expected to have like 50 participants So, after you register for the event, it is free. And then they give you a like, ticket for drink and lunch. And then after the event they taught like, maybe it will be few people. So they will take only 50 of them. But when we went there, we were given more than 100. But they are. They give the drink to only those with the tickets. So if you don't have the ticket, you can still participate. But you need to buy your own drink, which was nice. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cool. And it's still open to anybody like, strolling in on half chance. That's, that's really nice that you could still be a part of things. So but just to recap, Amos, what are your thoughts on on your experience of WWDC 2022. Amos Gyamfi: For me, I think it is really great experience like to attend this in person, because you meet a lot of people that you would never see, like in real life. Like, I have been talking with people all the time. But to see them in person is really, really great. And also to see the upward Developer Center, what they do, and the Swift UI lab where these engineers will work from it's really, really nice. Yeah, Jeroen Leenarts: yeah. Yeah. And for you, Stefan, what are your thoughts on WWDC this year? Stefan Blos: I mean, I had huge FOMO because he saw all these nice pictures of people, like spending time together. They're not necessarily at the at the event itself, but as a must mentioned, like the iris of happy hour and everything. Yeah. So that was that was hard to see sometimes on Twitter, I have to say, but still, I think it was a pretty cool event. I mean, there were also like other things happening. There have been some nice Twitter spaces. There have been some nice online events. So I think it was overall still a very nice week with a very nice experience. So yeah, I think, for me, it was also fun. Probably not not as fun as for Amos. But but still it was a really cool thing. It's always like, like Christmas for developers getting new announcements. Jeroen Leenarts: I was like calling WWDC Apple's new year. Stefan Blos: Yeah. That was all a theory experience. Jeroen Leenarts: So yeah, for me, it's been a busy week, most of it. Because the weird thing was that the Monday of the keynotes, that was actually a public holiday in the Netherlands. So I just had like a very casual day off just not doing much minding my own business. And then at seven in the evening, that's when things started, really, for me, because what Stefan and I did on the Monday evening for us, so when the keynote started, we were watching the keynotes. And especially Stefan, he was taking notes frantically. And just making sure that we that we got a good overview of what was being shared in the, in the Apple Keynote. And then I think the keynote was over, it lasts like close to two hours, I think it was. And then we started writing the two of us. That's why I'm meanwhile, knowing that Amos was just enjoying the scenery, being in the front yard, at Apple campus, enjoy casual conversations, slapping backs with other people. The two of us were like really frantically typing because we split up the work. And we started typing. And we create an article which was kind of substantial. When we finished, we were surprised both of us with what we ended up with, so that we could put that live, Amos Gyamfi: like to get it, put it together in a short time. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. And once we had it finished, that was like the keynote started at seven. And I think four or five hours after we started the keynote, we had RPS live, including images and everything. And then also the State of the Union also happened. But Stefan and I agreed that we need some sleep first. So in the morning, we started the next day watching the State of the Union again, because I had a bit of a look the night before, do the same thing writing. But this article turned out to be even bigger than the keynote article. But it's I think it's also a good article, nice pictures in there. Lots of stuff. And we've got that out on the Tuesday morning even I think it was. So that was basically the first two days for for me and Stefan actually. And then it was like getting updated with all the videos, picking what things to watch. Meanwhile, keeping all kinds of other things going that were ongoing. Because of my day to day job because I still needed to do some refuel work. I wanted to look into some code and stuff. So it's really been a very intense but enjoyable week. I am tired now, but I wouldn't have wanted to miss it in any way. I am usually jealous of Amos and him being able to travel to to the United States to be traveling. Amos Gyamfi: Yeah, it's my I've first I've ever yeah. I forgot I even met Malin. And Daniella. Yeah. Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: So the pictures on Twitter Amos Gyamfi: after the event, and they were so happy to meet me and the other people as well. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. So are they different in person then on on video stream? Amos Gyamfi: Yes, I will say Daniella is more like she's open and just try to talk with you so many things all the time. But my goodness. Jeroen Leenarts: I do think it helps that you've sort of like seen each other before. And then you meet in person you have some common ground to start with. And of course, we're all Apple developers there on, on the events surrounding Amos Gyamfi: happy to meet me and we're talking about stuff all the time. Yeah. It was really nice. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. So looking at the WWDC week, we already talked about what were some of the cool announcements that that we mentioned mentioned, but of the whole experience content, the experience the events doesn't matter. What, what was the biggest thing for you of the whole WWDC week for you most? Amos Gyamfi: I would say, the improvements in Swift UI. Yeah. It's quite a lot of videos about Swift UI. And now I find it very difficult to know. I know where to start from, but just to consume a written will be really hard. Yeah, it's Jeroen Leenarts: so much right. Yeah, yeah. So that's Amos Gyamfi: what I've now planned is like I have completed the 100 days of Swift, no 100 days of Swift UI. So I will just adopt the same process to also consume all the videos, like to do maybe one video and then do some gritten about it. Jeroen Leenarts: You mean, you mean 100 days of WWDC? 22. Amos Gyamfi: Yes. Something like that. That's, Jeroen Leenarts: that's a good idea. Actually, we should we should all do that. And just tweet about it a lot. And then, yeah, that's, it is intense, but it isn't ideal. Is it like 100 or 100 workdays, or 100 weekdays that you're going to do? Amos Gyamfi: Yeah, I think we this will be the best. Yeah. Cool. No. What about this will be really tough. It will be really tough. So maybe Jeroen Leenarts: seven or five videos a week five videos already. I do know that I didn't notice when they switched to the online format of WWDC, the videos got shorter, right? Because in the in the in person editions of WWDC, these presentation videos, they were like 40 to 60 minutes. And now you even have videos, that's like seven minutes or 15. Or if you have a long one, it's like 3035 minutes. And that's the top really, except for of course, the big announcement videos like State of Union a keynote. But yeah, to carry over to you, Stefan, what was like of the whole WWE experience this year, the biggest thing for you, and I know you still have some work left? Stefan Blos: I do. But for me, the biggest thing was that I already touched on that, like in the beginning that it wasn't the adopter PC of huge announcements. But I think it's it's a very welcoming thing. Because for developers, a lot of things were introduced that make our lives better and easier. While back, like improving API's that I have already existed, and then also like, making some things easier that have been harder before. One thing that comes to my mind is the app intense framework that makes it easier to integrate with a series spotlight and create shortcuts. So I really like the improvements of that side. But overall, I enjoyed that. There's no huge improvement or huge announcement from from a user side, I think, aside from the lockscreen. But for developers, I think there's a ton of stuff. And it's really only like scratching the surface of what's new and what's now possible to do. So I really liked that they they focused on the developer experience there. And we will have some fun with that, I think throughout the year. And once the stable reasons are out, especially. What about you? Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. For me, it was mostly about the different experience I had with WWDC compared to previous years. Of course, I've been to in person WWDC s years ago. We have experienced WWDC online before COVID Before the Online Edition of WWDC and last year, we had the first real online edition of WWDC and it seems Apple is carrying over those lessons into this year's WWDC. But what was different for me this year compared to all the previous editions was that I was actually working with a team, the two of you, and just having to come up with ways. Okay, how can we make the three of us best deal with all this onslaught of information and also absorb as much of this information as quickly as possible so that at least as a collective, the three of us have a good grasp of all the announcements that are relevant to us and to stream so that we can work with that in the coming months. That was like, that was like the biggest new thing for me to basically the shared experience that that we had that was like, completely new to me. And I really enjoyed that in a way that it was like, I can't do everything, not by a longshot. But just knowing that there's people in a team taking care of things so that they don't have to think about those aspects that was like, that was like really refreshing to just know, okay, it's been taken care of, there's somebody who's covering this and so I can focus on my part of the pie. And that was, I think, for me the it's not Apple related, but that was like the biggest thing for me the have the experience this year, I think, and I think I think I want to do this again next year in a similar fashion. And then hopefully, we can send Stefan or maybe myself to Cupertino. Kudos, Amos Gyamfi: no regrets. Really nice experience. Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. So um, yeah. Amos already mentioned, he's going to do the 100 days of WWDC 22. And that's also a bit of the aspects, okay, how to absorb all this new stuff. We did a bit of divide and conquer between the three of us. But now we're in it for the long haul. And there's like over 100 videos available. How to deal with this? I think a good I think a good start would be to like, share our ideas on what we think are good videos to watch. And to, to make it hard on you guys. I will share my few first, I think, looking at the Swift UI and UI Kit overview talks, that's like the thing to start with, get like an idea of what has changed in your developer experience for the for the coming months in the coming years. Really, I think we're using those videos as a jumping off point to get some idea of what's available, and then deepen your experience by picking and choosing your videos. I think that's the best start that you can have. And I'm still looking forward to some content that will be announced, or made available later today. And that's the use way for Surfside development talk really curious about that one, what Apple is going to share there. So I'm Stefan, what is your take on this one? Where should people what what is what is one of the videos people should put at the top of the FU list in the Developer App. Stefan Blos: So as you mentioned, we were pretty busy this week. So I didn't have the chance to watch too many sessions yet. And I wanted to quickly stress that it's also not necessary, right? Because like this, these are the sessions that are released. And there's now one year of waiting until the next next step up DC. So we have a lot of time to go through all the sessions that we're interested in. So we shouldn't stress too much. I'm just going through everything now. I decided to dive into a few of the not so popular ones. So for example, I actually didn't watch the Swift UI overview talk yet. And also the UI Kit overview talk, I didn't watch those yet. Yeah, I watch a little bit about AR because I'm interested in that. And I really enjoyed one of the videos there which is called Bring your world into augmented reality. And it touches a lot upon the object capture framework that was introduced last year. And I really liked that they they really explain more about the process that is taking place when like objects are captured when like the entire AR kit experience is happening. And the cool thing was that they really built an end to end workflow just inside that session. They build AR chess game with custom shaders and everything and I have to say I didn't didn't understand everything there because I haven't worked with custom shaders before but but still was a very nice way of just seeing not only theoretical content but a real real world application that was being built there and the steps they took and the thought that went into it I learned a lot from that. So my my recommendation for for one session would be bring your word into augmented reality Jeroen Leenarts: yeah yeah because they this this room scanning thing that they released was really really cool right Stefan Blos: yeah, so I'm also session about that but didn't watch it. Jeroen Leenarts: Yes, so much. So much they taken so a most you as being there are boots on the ground. You probably have seen the fewest videos of all of us, I guess. But I think you've seen a few sessions in person as well. Or something similar, you've been in the labs. But what is something on the top of your list to watch of all the videos that's been made available? Amos Gyamfi: For now, I think I have watched like four of them. So maybe I also have a compilation of which ones I have to watch from now, as well. But out of those I want, I think the best one is what is new in Swift UI? Yeah. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah. I can imagine. So, um, there's one elephant in the room that Apple has put in there. It was in the keynote, I think it was. And that was their not so obvious slide that if you create a new app, you should be using Swift UI. So what are your guys? Thoughts on on using UI kit or Swift UI? So what are your thoughts there? Is it like, if you create a new app that there's no, there's no other option? You will pick swift UI? Or is UI Kit still an option? When doing development? What do you guys think? Amos Gyamfi: I saw one argument on Twitter last week about it as well, like, you already put a statement like if you're starting new, so you don't waste your time to learn UI Kit at all. And then people came back to just fight with you, like node.js mislead a lot of people in this way. I will put a link to that in the notes. So you can just check it. So I think it depends if you are just starting development right now. I think it will be good to maybe start with Swift UI, because as the term goes, you might it may not be used about something. Yeah. Stefan Blos: Yeah, I think that's that's a probably a good approach. I mean, like, it's fun to just say, like, this one's better just use that. But I think in reality, it's you. You won't like, in many cases, you will need both. So it's, I think it's fine. Just if you start out to focus on Swift UI, and like, like you mentioned, it's, it's like the most obvious way that Apple, like does it to force people to think about adoption of Swift UI? Because it's like the fourth year now. And I think the, the, the framework has, like grown and matured a lot. So I think it's fine to think that it should, it should start being the default solution. But there's still like use cases where you like, it will still be a better solution to solve a problem. So I think there's the boring answer of it depends. I think the move will, like, go more and more towards swift UI in, in the future for sure. But also right now, the, the trend is clear. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, I can, I can understand what you're what you're saying there. Because I've been using UI kits for I don't know, as long as I can remember, I think. And I've been doing iOS development for quite some time. Like, it sounds weird, but over a decade. And it's something that is it's kind of hard for me to just say UI kit is something you should maybe at some point start moving away from, because it's been so central to my software development life for so long. I am getting my hand at at swift UI, of course. But yeah, there's some nostalgia going on there with me. I think I do think moving to Swift UI is the best bet that you can take right now. But I also know that UI kit is not, it's not that yet. Because if you just look at the What's New UI kit, overview talks, that was like, there's a lot of stuff in there. And a lot of new features in Swift UI are based in in UI kit, really? So yeah, I'm really curious to see what the adoption will be of Swift UI in the broader iOS developer ecosystem, because you know, not only have the indie developers like Geordi, who can go headfirst on all the new stuff and may support like maybe one platform version back. But you also have like the typical enterprise corporate iOS developers who are working on a code base that has a legacy of like years, maybe even like more than five years. And they have to at some point, start making the move or are already making the move from UI kit to Swift UI. Right? And I'm really curious to see how that will progress in the in the coming 12 months. And but also what effects it will have on on our work really, because at stream we haven't UI Kit based Swift. You Why SDK? And we have a swift UI based iOS SDK. And the Swift UI SDK is relatively new. It's, it's it is feature complete. But are we gonna see like a big move from our customers from the one SDK to the newer SDK? I don't know, we'll just have to see, I'm looking forward to it, that we can create even more swift UI based content, because we are already in our content very heavy on the Swift UI aspect of things. And, yeah, I think I think this, this is going to be a big year for swift UI, really, just considering the maturity of it, and the adoption that it's already seeing. And now also the way that Apple has like, communicated about it in their keynotes. And with iOS 16, people can start dropping support for iOS 13, which has been sort of like the Swift UI problem child, because especially I already got a lot better with iOS 14, even much better usable, even with iOS 15. And iOS 16, I expect that you can really create new, full, useful applications in it without having to fall back to two UI kits, especially because of the new navigation structure features that are introduced in iOS 16. Swift UI. So yeah, very curious to see what will happen there. And I think I think I agree with the two of you that if you're starting something new, then swift UI is definitely your first option. Because of the convenience to integration, and also how it carries over to other platforms within the Apple ecosystem. Stefan Blos: It's also cool to see that there were also sessions about interoperability again. So if you have to use your iPad, for example, for certain tasks inside of your Swift UI apps, it will still be a very pleasant experience, and most of the time, so I think that's also a nice thing to see that Apple is aware of this, that this will happen. And they make this as easy as possible. Jeroen Leenarts: So basically, we've been talking for an hour now. So I think it's a good time to start wrapping up. Again, we want to thank our employer stream for allowing us the time to spend so much time and energy in all the WWE content. And we're done. We're not done yet for today, because I know Stefan will be doing an appearance at the try swift event. So let's try swift dubbed up, try swift.co. And you will find a link there. And there's a really great lineup of speakers there. And Stefan is is one of them. Yeah, it was very funny, because I mentioned to Stefan Hey, did you see the lineup of the speaker sets? Twice? We've dubbed up and he basically told me that yeah, I've seen it. And it's part of why I'm so nervous about this whole thing. Which, which is good, because nerves are well, but what can I say? It's, it puts you on edge. And if you if it doesn't block you, you only get like more aware and better able to execute Stefan Blos: it for you to say, Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, well, I've been there done that as well that you like onstage you go like completely nervous, and then you just have to go to execute. And, yeah, to wrap it up. If you want to see more of our content, more of the things that we do want to stay in touch with us send us DMS, whatever. Because we're always open for for communication questions, input feedback, and just a casual conversation on Twitter. You can follow us on on Twitter. I've posted the Twitter links in the chat of on the YouTube stream. So that's Amos underscore, GMP. And it's Stefan J blas and Air Force One on Twitter. You can find us there and make sure to give us a follow and make sure to like this video as well, because it will really help people find this video after the event because I will publish this live stream on my YouTube channel. So anyways, everybody who's watching this, thanks for your time and thanks for for your attention. And hopefully we can talk to you and share some content with you soon again. Right. Stefan Blos: Bye bye. Amos Gyamfi: Good bye