Vincent Pradeilles, Worldline employee by day, rising YouTube star by night.

Jeroen Leenarts: So hi, everybody. This is an extra special episode. I'm sitting here with Vincent. By Dallas, I hope I pronounced his last name correct. I didn't check with him beforehand. And there's actually a special occasion that we're doing this recording, which is 2000 subscribers on his YouTube channel. So for instance, congratulations. How are you today? Vincent Pradeilles: Thank you. I'm doing doing pretty fine. So as you said, yeah, nice, my son. And it was very funny that we are trying to predict it using your website like Social Blade. And actually, the the algorithm was right. And actually, the algorithm was correct, like, almost to the exact day. So I'm impressed by by the precision of algorithms. Jeroen Leenarts: So yeah, because we're recording on March 5, and on what day did you pass the 2000? Milestone? Vincent Pradeilles: I think much further to two or three days ago. Jeroen Leenarts: It was on Wednesday, I think, yeah. That's really nice and onpoint. When did you start this YouTube venture that you're currently doing? Vincent Pradeilles: I started so at the end of September 2020. Jeroen Leenarts: Because that's actually pretty interesting. Because like, two weeks later, I think I started my podcast actually, on October 13, I think that I started. And it's really interesting to see what kind of growth you've been able to achieve with with YouTube. And of course, YouTube is a way different platform than podcasting. But in the end, I think both of us do reasonably well, I think. And what I was, like, really curious about is why did you start YouTube channel. Vincent Pradeilles: So the reason for doing YouTube, it's kind of linked to what I was doing before. So I was doing a lot of speaking at a US conferences. So most of them had to be put on old, few of them, like converted to remote event. And it really started to feel like this conference, the experience as a speaker in a remote conference, I felt it was very similar than just putting a video on YouTube, because you are sending the video, you're watching it be premiere the live, you answer some questions in the chat. But it's a totally different experience than then going to some places far away and to just do a live performance. So like starting from there, I was like, why don't I try actually do doing this YouTube thing? And we'll see like, how it goes. Jeroen Leenarts: And just to give that remark, some context. You're a Frenchman, you're living in France, you have a very distinct and wonderful accent. Where in France do you live? Vincent Pradeilles: So I live in a city called Lille, which is kind of in the kind of in the center of France actually, like a center it'll be to the right but Norris Jeroen Leenarts: and if you look at conference, what is what are one of sorry. And if you look at conferences, what are the most interesting conferences in Europe that you've been able to visit pre COVID Vincent Pradeilles: So in Europe for us Well, first we are very lucky in France because we have two conferences we have both French kids and the Swift which are happening in Paris and we've kind of different format so they are very like different experience both as a as a speaker and as an attendee. Then of course, I've attended the NS painter. So which is this very famous confined that happens in in Spain internal flow Gonio are on September we can happen on site. Then I also attended one so in the Netherlands, at DEF CON. So in, in Amsterdam, also very nice confines the fact that they rent as a movie theater. So super interesting as a as a speaker speaking in the movie theater, because there's your sound, the sound of your voice is coming from behind you from the screen. So it's a very special experience to to do. And I think the other one would be in Colonia, it used to be called objective Quran and then they're renamed as swift conf, if I'm right. Also very, I think like basically like all conferences, they have all their little like, distinct, distinct. Try, they all have this little different field, depending on the city, depending on how it how it came to be. And actually, I've never had like the same experience twice. And I think that's something very, very positive. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay. And you also, you already mentioned that conference is something that you really like to attend, both as a attendee and as a speaker. And if I'm correct, you did a lot of speaking engagements before COVID? And you also did some during COVID? What was the purpose of you starting to do presentations in front of larger crowds? And what was the what was your goal were doing that? Vincent Pradeilles: I, I'd say it kind of started like, Ritter bit by by chance, actually, I attended the expain. So for the first time, I think it was in at the end of 2017. So some some years ago, and just like really like the atmosphere, you know, like, it seems like, like a very big change trying to do it. So the kind of thing where like, if you manage to make it, it's super, right. And if you don't manage to make it well, it was such a big change that there is like, no shame in trying and not making it so. So that's why it like, pushed me to try it. And actually, like step by step. So the year after that, I did a lightning talk at a Spain. Then at some other conferences in in Paris, actually, I managed, I was at two talks accepted in Singapore, the beginning of 2019. So it was very, like, big, big opportunity, the opposite. Two talks, two days in a row really big, because you get the chance to like, give your first thought, and then you have one night to reflect and improve on the next day. And to have like such ability to improve on such short notice, it really helps. Because What's hard is that conferences they are like months apart. So it's much harder to improve than when you do a video and you can just recall the new video, like, just basically whenever you want. So that's how I get started and then started to go to go to go well, when you have like a few topics you can propose when you can like submit them to several conferences, and if they are diversified enough, you have a good chance that they will, each conference will find something that interests them. So it actually wasn't like preachy, it took pretty quickly, like much quicker than I would have anticipated, actually, so So yeah, it was a very nice run, great experience, get to meet a lot of cool people. And once again, for people who have never attended a conference, well, once they happen again, I think it's already a great way to to grow your network to see what's happening, like, beyond the scope of of your company, or even your country for you for them to convince in another country. And actually something I would love to do, once conferences can happen on premise, again, is to do like some kind of vlogging video just to show how it is for people who have never had the opportunity to to attend because it had such an impact on my career path that I would really like to try and share this, this feeling. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay, so you mentioned something interesting that it had an impact on your career path? And was that something that you was expecting when you started your first conference talks that it would have such an impact on your career path? Vincent Pradeilles: That's, that's kind of Yeah, kind of like a chicken and egg problem, I guess, like you get started on this path. Because somehow you feel that you are ready to share some, some knowledge or you think you have reached that point in your career where you should, like, Step Step Up goes out of your comfort zone. But also, you don't necessarily like it's hard to anticipate what is going to happen after because it's all a matter of opportunities. And they are complicated to anticipate by definition. But yeah, I saw that, of course, it helps tremendously in in the credibility that you you can you can have with your management, your teammate, and also in the self confidence are going to have in trying some new project and going like outside of your comfort zone. I think it's really like the both of them that are going to work together in order to enable us reach like some kind of new level we could say. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay, and you mentioned that you got started with conference talks in 2017. When did you get started with software development professionally? Vincent Pradeilles: So I started studying computer science in 2011. So I started studying computer science in 2009. And I did my first internship in 2011. So it wasn't a US internship, but I wasn't necessarily looking for it. Actually. I was a bit late to find my internship and it was a company that was offering this internship actually in the south of France that was a company that was doing a lot of experiments around the digital publishing So 2011, the iPad was released like something like eight months before. So a lot of things happening on that field, you know, a lot of the big publisher that our financing some proof of concept and that kind of stuff. So they had a lot of openings for internship. So I went there like for, I think, three months, doing some Objective C, but in the very early days, like, retain and release, the old Xcode web interface builder was a separate app. So already, like, just before, it goes like to the level that we all new initiatives, it was just before that, when it was still like very light kind of embedded software feeling about it. So that's how we started. And then during my studies, I had some internship, like, almost like every summer, so I kept doing, doing a us just a little bit of web, like, before graduating, just to make sure that I didn't like miss out on anything, then went back to us, and I haven't, I haven't lessons. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay. And and what made you decide to do a computer science education. Vincent Pradeilles: I say, probably like, good grades in enough. The fact that also, that's a bit of a specificity of friends. But in France, most engineering schools, they are public. So like, the tuition is extremely, extremely low. Whereas like, for instance, if you want to do like business studies, most schools the costs much, much higher. So proceed, there were like a lot of opportunities, like the iPhone had been released only one or two years ago, and when you started using it, you could see that there was some potential. So it felt like a nice, a nice choice. I had this feeling that if you know about engineering and computer science, then you can branch out to other things like it is especially true in France, where with an engineering degree, you can also do do business. If you want, it's much easier this way than the other way around. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay. And then you have an interest into computers and software development before you started making up your mind and making this decision. Vincent Pradeilles: So yeah, I think actually, I started using an Apple product very late. I think I had like my first Mac in in 2008, something like that. But before that, yeah, like, computers at home very early is starting when I was like five years old. So I'm 30 right now. So it wasn't back in the days of Windows 95. So quite some time ago, but yeah, so I have been like, familiar with computers earlier, like not necessarily with doing some, some programming, but at least like using them starting to use some specialized software and this kind of stuff. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay, cool. So just to get back to the present again. Did you do any celebrations due to the 2000 subscribers? Milestone? Or do you have something planned for your subscribers. Vincent Pradeilles: So on my path, what's funny is that for all the milestone, everything has been in lockdown in France. So no, like celebration, except that maybe like huddling some fast food to do something fun that night, but otherwise very quiet. But on the on the other end. So what I decided to do for the 2000 is to be like more regular on live streaming. So I'm going to start like from next week, each first day, I'm going to try to have a live stream at 8pm should last something like one hour, maybe two hour. And the idea is to only explore the kind of content where the interactivity with the audience will add something, you know, the kind of content well, if I wanted to do a pre recorded video, it would take a ton of time to record edit. And actually the result would be less interesting because there wouldn't be the interactivity. So for instance, next week, I will have a guest. So Anastasia voiceover, who was on your podcast last week to talk about iOS app security, but I'm thinking also doing things like doing some workshops, or maybe just like, you know, like, for instance, the Swift standard library is coded in Swift. So we can and is open source, we can take a look at the code. So maybe like taking a look at how things like you know, the functions like map feature, etc, how they're coded that you look at the optimization, commenting them in real time, that kind of thing. Jeroen Leenarts: I should definitely get Daniel Steinberg, online, if you start to dig into that topic, actually, because he's really into deep diving into the Swift standard library to explain functional coding topics. If you look at the videos that you've been producing since October, how many did you create thus far? Vincent Pradeilles: 49. And some of them have not been released yet. So are on 50. Jeroen Leenarts: If you look at all these videos, it's now that you've been doing it like five months. Yeah. So that's close to 10 videos each month that you produce. What has these videos? What have these videos provided you? Over the last five months? What benefits did they bring to your life as a software developer on iOS? Vincent Pradeilles: That that's? That's a very good question. So I'd say the first thing is that, I try to have a format that is short and to the point. So I'd say 3d Like help, when you want to explain a concept, you have to find the right angle to approach it, you have to find the right example, the right use case. So really like being like, for and precise on an explanation. I'd say, number one, number one thing, and then just trying to like, put myself in the in, in the mind of the viewer and starting to think, what would I like to see as content. If I were an iOS developer, or in a YouTube channel, you know, what would have value for me, you need to find this fine balance between something that teaches some, some new skills, because we are still talking about professional skill sets still need to be a little bit entertaining, because people are watching it like people don't want to feel compelled to watch it, they want it to be a little bit fun. So you need to also find this light, slight entertaining balance. And then I'd say also it teaches you like to try and consistently stay out of your comfort zone, meaning that you need to try some new format, experiment, experiment new things. So I think maybe these are more like, video my maker or teacher skills than really iOS developer skills. Because actually what I am doing, I have I am pitching. Speaking about iOS content, but at the core of the activity. It's it's a teaching activity, Jeroen Leenarts: and and what are the biggest benefits to you personally? So what does it what does it bring you because I know that if I'm teaching something, that it's it really gives me a lot more insight into the topic I'm talking about? Yeah, but what are the what are the benefits? What do you gain by teaching because you provide the content for free, but there must be besides just enjoying it, there must be something that is worthwhile for you to keep on doing this as well, I guess Vincent Pradeilles: what I'd say if it is, firstly, it forces me to stay up to date. on Swift. For instance, I've done a lot of videos on a sink await by installing the snapshot of the Swift two chains. So kind of looking at this beta version of Swift. And actually, at some point, I thought to myself, I have never like done this before trying to like see in advance what Swift is going to be because I just didn't have like the motivation because I didn't see an interest for myself as a developer, because I couldn't use this feature for for now and just reading articles was enough to start anticipating. So it forces me to be like more focus on what is happening on Swift, and maybe more focused also on on the future. Because of course, content that speaks about the future is the one that is going to be the most appealing for the viewers because it will give the viewer the insight in the future of the language. And that is valuable for you as developer, because then they can use this knowledge into the job. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay, and the topics that you actually talk about in your videos. Of course, async await is something that is very much top of mind on the internet on Twitter, and it's on swift.org. But the other topics where do you source your ideas? Is it like based on work experience that you have at your, your at your regular job? Or how do you come up with like ideas for creating new content? Because 50 videos that's like quite a lot of ideas already. Vincent Pradeilles: Yeah, so we could say so I guess half of them are from the Swift Tips series, which is like focusing on either a keyword or an attribute from the language function from the standard library. So for this one, it's actually you just need to look at the documentation and see what is worthwhile to get to get the ID. And then for the other content. What I did a lot is that i i reviewed my previous contents. So I had some blog articles, I had some GitHub repos with some tips about Swift. I've done also some, some workshops. So I had some teaching materials for this workshop. So I reviewed them and try to see like, what could I extract in order to fit it into, into a 10? into a 10 minute videos. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay. And so your format is always to like restricted to 10 minutes, right? If it's at least the more tutorial type videos, of course, the interview type videos that you also do are a bit longer because yeah, it just needs time to interview somebody properly. But is it a conscious decision to keep it at 10 minutes? Or is it like a format, or Vincent Pradeilles: it's a conscious decision. So when I started, I was more like three to four minutes, because like doing a video, when you've never done it, it takes like time and effort me to be focused on a lot of things, unlike how you speak, how fast to have the good posture, all these kind of things. So three to four minutes, when you begin is a challenge, I am trying to never go above 10 minutes, except for interviews. Because I feel like for YouTube, when you are above 10 minutes, you are away asking a lot, you need to remember that, of course videos are free, but people are still paying with their time and their attention. So you need to keep this price low. And I can see like a lot of YouTubers, a lot of YouTubers have basically been using the standard format, I think is the good one. Because you people can watch these kinds of videos, while they are taking their breakfast, before they go to sleep, you know, there is a lot of it's easy to fit it into a schedule. And even when there are some, like even mainstream people that really like when it when they waste a longer video, I see that I cannot watch them in my usual schedule, because it's just too long for the use that I have for the videos in my in my daily routine. So I say it's more of a consequence of the of the platform. And that's why also for the live is the ability to do something a little bit longer, because people can just drop in and leave. And then there is the replay, available after a while. But when you watch the replay for live, you don't necessarily like watch it from start to finish. You kind of like skip ahead, you you look at what there is, it's a very different kinds of content. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay. And if you if you look at one of these videos, like the current, maximum 10 minutes format that you create, of course, it's it's 10 minutes of content that is viewable online. But how much time does it take in recording and then in editing to come down to this 10 minute format? Vincent Pradeilles: Yeah, that's a good question, especially for people who might want to like get started. That's very important data to have in mind. So I would say at least for my process, so first, I need to write the video. And by writing, it's almost entirely writing the code snippet, because the text is simple enough that he can be like, derive from the code snippet in real time. So writing this, so finding the ID writing it, find a good example. I think it's like 30 minutes to 45 minutes per video. Taking into account I've been doing like a lot of thoughts like before, and so you have some experience on that path. So that's the first point. But it's really the key point because almost everything is going to mechanically follow from this part. So if you don't invest on that first writing part, everything else is going to be like nuts. All right. So that's the first part, then you need to record. So recording actually, it's kind of it takes kind of like twice the time of the video, because we're going to have some bloopers, we need to redo some stuff. But it doesn't take that long. The thing that takes like the most energy is setting up the the green screen the lights, doing a good after if you have long hair, it's more complicated, but you might think also finding like the, the nice tone of your voice. So that's why I really I try and record at least three or four videos in a row. This way you can really like kind of like factor out this disgust of setting up and tearing down the set for the recording. And then once you have done that, so you have the editing so it depends how long it takes. I think for 10 minute video It must take like between one and two hours. It's really going to depend like how good I've been joined the recording. And by editing so I also mean like making the miniatures and this kind of thing you know, at the end of the design you have the video that is ready to upload. So yeah, between one or two hours, and then you need to upload the video on YouTube. Fill out the description earned the title if you want to put some some links in the video, you need to like set them in the editor. So I'd say like All in all, for a 10 minute video, I think it's about three hours between two and a half and three hours of work. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay. And that's actually a lot of work that goes into like these small but very well put together videos, already a great advertisement for the work that you're doing on your YouTube channel. But if somebody would like drop in on my podcast like right at this second, can you pitch your YouTube channel, to my listeners. Vincent Pradeilles: So right now, the goal of my YouTube channel is to try and offer some educational content about iOS, I try to have content that is going to be suited for, for beginners and intermediate developers, I also try to have some interviews of people that are known for the experts in the community. So this kind of content, I think it appeals more to more experienced developers. And the idea is to try and see what kind of content around us we can put on. We can we can put on YouTube. That's my pitch, for the moment, but I can tell you like it is evolving almost on a on a day to day basis. Jeroen Leenarts: And that's really good to hear. Because it's top of mind with you, it seems. And if people want to support you, what's the best way that they can do that, of course, subscribe on your YouTube channel, but other otherwise? Vincent Pradeilles: Well, I said the best way to support is indeed to subscribe, and I know watch the video. My goal is to keep all the content on the channel free. And I need a new sponsorship in order to finance the channel and all the recording here. So basically, if people watch the video, and they subscribe, they grow the number, the bigger the number the most, the sponsors will be interested. So that's actually the best way to support the channel. Jeroen Leenarts: Okay, and what is your next goal after these first 2000. Vincent Pradeilles: That's, that's a very good one. Because 3000 I think it's a little bit less of a milestone, I think the next one is going to be like 5000, the next big one in the in the mind of people. So I'd say for me, the goal is to, to keep on producing content that the result of like two videos per week. Also try and live this live, live format. Try to keep all of this like alive until next WBC. And then my next challenge will be to find Well, what kind of content can I offer during the week of the DC I'm saying week we don't even know if it's going to be a week, it could be like longer now that it's probably not going to be an in person event. But it's the big week. It's when people are extremely, like they have their attention focus on on iOS and all the other new stuff that Apple announces. So I think the next big change is going to try and offer something very nice. During that way Jeroen Leenarts: people can find you on YouTube, I will make sure to put the link in the show notes. And what is the name of your YouTube channel because we did not mention that in the entire half hour up till now. Vincent Pradeilles: So actually, it's just my name. So Russell, I have things pretty simple on that path. Jeroen Leenarts: Yeah, so I'll make sure to link that from the show notes that people can find you. And I definitely recommend that people, like try and join on the first live stream that's going to be Vincent Pradeilles: the next day on March 11 8pm. European time Jeroen Leenarts: and Sasha photo. She's someone I'm like, I'm like a fan of hers. Because she's such an awesome person to to talk about security with. So for instance, again, very much Congratulations with your milestone of 2000 subscribers. And thank you, I think that once you hit 10k that we need to check in again and compare notes and see how much has changed since this recording and even look into what your format is done and how much it has might have changed in the meantime. And I think we'll be talking rather sooner than later by the looks of things and how things are progressing. Vincent Pradeilles: We'll see we'll see. I cannot I can only hope so. Honestly, I don't think it will be for this year. But maybe next year. We'll see. Jeroen Leenarts: Thank you for your time. FinCEN Vincent Pradeilles: Thank you for having me.